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RIP Frost. Soap Globe is not a funny joke at all.

  • For those of you who dont udnerstand a differnce between making warframe ballanced and making warframe useless, I say it once again:

    ABOUT SNOW GLOBE, AKA "SOAP GLOBE":

    The only difference between me claiming that Soap Globe is useless and you claiming that it is still usefull - is that my statament is followed not only by expierence but also by pure math.

    The funny fact about this math is that I dont even need to know the exact numbers to tell if certain skill is usefull or useless on endgame, honestly its more logical thinking than common math. Its so simple and obvious that only idiots wont understand this:

    1. Endgame is mostly about playing survive and defnse missions - because only there endgame players may find some challenge.

    2. As the mission advances the enemy lvl grows. As the enemy lvl grows their offensive and deffensive abilites increase.

    3. Every raw-numbers-based property of the skill, that is designed to counter deffensive or offensive abilities of the enemy - will ultimately fail to take effect. No matter how little or how big these numbers are - they are constant numbers defining the actual power of the skill that are exptected to withstand continuously growing enemy power - sooner or later they will fail to do so.

    Simple example: Maxed Excalibur's Radial Javelin can easily wipe out whole room full of 5lvl enemies. The same Radial Javelin cant even scratch lvl 100 enemy.

    4. Therefore every raw-numbers-based skill can be regarded as useless considering endgame usage.

    Thats why Soap Globe is useless. You can even max its HP by using maxed Blind Rage and Focus, you can even try using 2 of such Soap Globes at once - it doesnt matter! At some point enemy dmg output becomes so strong that even "HPmaxed&doubled" Soap Globe will not last longer than 1 second.


    CONCLUSION ABOUT NOWADAYS FROST:

    As I just explained - Snow Globe is now useless. Some of you out there are still claiming something like "OK, Snow Globe is gone, but Frost got CC abilities now, so he is still a nice and usefull warframe!" - You know what? Only a newbie or noob may come with such a statement. Dont misunderstand me, everybody makes mistakes sometimes, but if you will stick to this statement after reading what I am going to tell you - you must be really an idiot.

    If you thnik that these "new" Crowd Control skills makes Frost usefull, then simply look at this list:

    Ash - Smoke Screen

    Banshee - Sonic Boom

    Banshee - Sound Quake

    Ember - Accelerant

    Excalibur - Radial Blind

    Loki - Decoy

    Mag - Pull

    Mag - Crush

    Nekros - Terrify

    Nyx - Chaos

    Oberon - Reckoning

    Rhino - Rhino Stomp

    Saryn - Miasma

    Valkyr - Paralysis

    Vauban - Bastille

    Vauban - Vortex

    Zephyr - Tornado

    You know what is this? This is list of warframes and their kinda usefull (it could be much longer, trust me) CC skills. CC skills are nothing special at all. And honestly Frost does pretty weak CC. Do not search far away - even my Excalibur does more effective CC.

    In other words - DE gave Frost ability to perform actions that (almost) any warframe can do (and some of them still can do it way better) in place of making his most usefull and uniqe skill USELESS. Well done DE, very well done.


    PS: I can agree to the statemant that Snow Globe was OP and balancig was necessary. The only porblem with this - making a skill useless is hell not a balancing. There are tons of other ways DE could make SG weaker. Like for example: Give SG 5 seconds of invulnerability (extendable by mods) and after that time apply its HP. - This makes SG weaker, propably disallowing infite loops, still keeps it partially enemy-power-depended, BUT also makes it usefull even against high lvl enemies. I got this idea in one minute, seriously DE acts sometimes like brainless zombie.

    PS2: I am not whining about nerf - Frost is not even my main warframe. This is just an analysis of what happened to Frost. So if you dont want to make yourself an idiot, try to proof me wrong instead of writing your shitty "stop crying".

    PS3: Its not like I dont trust random, anonymous guys from the internet, but if you not intend to make me laugh hard - bring video with your gameplay along with your comment like "I just done 99999999 wave on T3 Def Solo with my Frost, no problem".

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    • Very well put post....did you do the math of the avalange buff? Maybe a combination of Snow Globe with Avalange could prolong the effectiveness? Just throwing this out there...I am on PS4 and last night I was just telling a friend I am thinking of putting a forma on my frost prime....but after seeing the update 12 for PC...I am going to hold out....


      Once again...I really like your post...

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    • Darkos333 wrote:

      1. Endgame is mostly about playing survive and defnse missions - because only there endgame players may find some challenge.

      So if you un-endgame your stuff, you can find challenge everywhere?

      Decoy also has a set amount of health. Hell two level 20 Lancers can make short work out of it. With the exception of buggy jesus spots vs infested it's really a Soap Globe crafted in his image.

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    • 193.227.116.125 wrote:
      Darkos333 wrote:

      1. Endgame is mostly about playing survive and defnse missions - because only there endgame players may find some challenge.

      So if you un-endgame your stuff, you can find challenge everywhere?

      Decoy also has a set amount of health. Hell two level 20 Lancers can make short work out of it. With the exception of buggy jesus spots vs infested it's really a Soap Globe crafted in his image.


      Comparing Loki's effectiveness of Decoy to the effectiveness of the Snow Globe isn't the same...I consider the Snow Globe like an Ulty...Where as the decoy is the weakest ability of loki's..IMO.

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    • Comparing Loki's effectiveness of Decoy to the effectiveness of the Snow Globe isn't the same...I consider the Snow Globe like an Ulty...Where as the decoy is the weakest ability of loki's..IMO.

      You did not just call decoy weak

      One decoy can remove an entire crowd's focus from you instantly, then leave them confused after they kill it. It is VERY useful

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    • Darkos333, 

      I agree with everything that you are saying except for the part of "Frost was a Warframe needing balance". to which I dont agree.  Was the globe OP? Not from my view point, see my response below for what DE already had to deal with the snow globe.  So they gave Frost more damage ability. It wasn't needed or wanted.  I believe there should be Warframes that can deal damage, ones that should be exceptional team healers, ones that can go invisible and be all stealthy, ones can be tanky, and even technical ones that can achieve specific goals.  Most of all, despite what DE is trying to do, there needs to be defensive Warframes. 

      What DE needs to find is a balance but not of an individual Warframe but of an overal team compliment.  The team's composition is what matters.  For example, to pull a switch guarded by a laser, a stealth with a tank warframe could do it, or a lesser Warframe with a team healer on him, or even another type of distraction for the laser such as a decoy. I am so tired of the same-o same-o run and gun, where every warframe having to run as fast as possible killing anything in the path up to the end.

      But the reason for my post was that you failed to mention DE already had plenty of hostile dome penatrating weapons in use by various enemies such as...

      - Blasts from grenades (both Corpus and Grineer) would easily knock you down and could even put you outside of your dome

      - All the Heavy Gunner's fist pound will easily knock you down inside the globe

      - Grineer's Napalm weapon fire blast tore you down with every shot no matter where you stood in the globe

      - Grineer Commander didn't care if you were inside a globe when he teleports you to his location

      - Corpus' Railgun MOA penetrated the globe as if it wasn't even there.

      - Corpus' Shockwave MOA would send damaging knock down stomp right through the globe

      - And having a globe to deal with infested is just, as you say, "stupid"

      So now with update 12, not only is the globe's health ridiculously under powered with no trade off but DE has introduced the "Leader" enemy who have a secular ability to take health or energy or to cause fire or ice... once again the globe might as well not even be up since it can't defend against any of those items either.

      A true Frost player will agree...

      RIP FROST

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    • I agree. Pretty much like when Ember was first nerfed they rendered useless an ability and tweaked the ultimate's looks.

      BE AWARE OF SKILL RESTYLING :-D

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    • I dont know... this is all based on what is considered on the definition of 'endgame', and there really isn't an acutal endgame... just that bad moments of small slips in high levels that are costly and the team falls apart from gunfire and infested tendrils (<- I pray that doesnt sound wrong). Having no level limits set as 'endgame' by DE can mean that they are monitoring warframe powers that take players outside their expected bounds and plan on adjusting to set frames to such bound. That's my guess; exploitable/god level moves are on a choppingblock and its just a matter of who number ticket is called. These 'rip' threads aren't much concern. I can solo t3 void mobile defense and play t3 survivals for 20mins... then the blasted air runs low, but its everyone's possible doing easy. In time I could show limits of level 65 in a duo or trio run with a clanmate, which I think was their intention pre-U12. my pc specs aren't good for making videos at the time as gaming so my best can be pics. I just need time. No worries. I may do eh same for Zephyr, too, because she's fun as ever.

      Edit: Also, I find the original post disrespectful towards a professional company providing a free to play game, and no proof, if any, seems to be from someone who has any professional game design backgrounds, just subjective player observations. Not saying 'say sorry' (lol heck, you can spit at their door in all your rights) but we can at least be more civil, nothing big.

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    • Darkos333
      Darkos333 removed this reply because:
      This is mine reply, just got accidentally logged out -_-
      14:50, February 13, 2014
      This reply has been removed

      Definition of endgame in Warframe? Well, for me its sorta simple: its the state when cartain player had maxed / finished building his selected Warframe and had expierenced most of the game content (especially map progress and build of chosen equipment). This is where endgame (for selected warframe) starts; the state when you have achieved almost everything using given warframe and to keep having fun you have 2 options:

      1. Seek for challenges (here goes "endless" defense & survival) and master gameplay of your beloved warframe.

      OR

      2. Terminate endgame for given warframe by abandoning / selling him and start playing with another one.

      Its not that complicated, is it? IMHO DE should deffinitely start paying more attention to endgame players, because reaching such a state is matter of about 1 month of regular gameplay (considering a few formas being used) , while not everyone wants to "start again" by choosing point 2. Especailly since "non-platinum" players have very limited amount of warframe slots. This is exactly the point where most of the players start buying platinum, because they achieved something significant and (if they find this game worth it) they want to "main" selected warframe (by buying syandana's, skins, colour palette's etc) OR they want to buy more weapon/warframe slots and propably affinity boosters.

      Endgame players keep this game running (I've bought myself founders pack and I keep buying platinum from time to time) and treating them as less important than new players is the most strange thing I ever experienced in any game I've played. If Forst would be my main warframe I would definitely feel cheated by DE now. Havens protect my Excalibur Prime against applaying such a "balance"...

      Ps: Respect is something difficult to earn and easy to loose. By killing endgame Frost DE lost my respect. There are only 2 options:

      1. They killed endgame Frost by accident. DE wanted to nerf SG so much, that they overlook making Snow Globe totally useless. After that they decided to give frost something in exchange, so they gave him better CC - completly forgetting that almost every warfame in the game already have CC, morevoer - some of them have still way better CC. From one-trick pony to no-trick pony. And this is fair exchange according to them? I suspect they never tried playing endgame Frost if they say so.

      2. DE killed engame Frost on purpose. Maybe DE, in their infite wisdom, decided that players reaching 40+ wave on defenses are bad thing, so they destroyed the only skill allowing this. Of course this is "their" game and they can do whatever they want, so sad they forgot one thing - bored endgame players will stop playing and stop paying. If DE team is bored of Warframe then they propably should give it to other people instead of causing the game to die in agony. Astounding shoot in the foot, really astounding.

      No matter what really happened - point 1 or maybe point 2 - in both cases DE acts just like brainless zombie, so much of their proffesionalism.

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    • Definition of endgame in Warframe? Well, for me its sorta simple: its the state when cartain player had maxed / finished building his selected Warframe and had expierenced most of the game content (especially map progress and build of chosen equipment). This is where endgame (for selected warframe) starts; the state when you have achieved almost everything using given warframe and to keep having fun you have 2 options:

      1. Seek for challenges (here goes "endless" defense & survival) and master gameplay of your beloved warframe.

      OR

      2. Terminate endgame for given warframe by abandoning / selling him and start playing with another one.

      Its not that complicated, is it? IMHO DE should deffinitely start paying more attention to endgame players, because reaching such a state is matter of about 1 month of regular gameplay (considering a few formas being used) , while not everyone wants to "start again" by choosing point 2. Especailly since "non-platinum" players have very limited amount of warframe slots. This is exactly the point where most of the players start buying platinum, because they achieved something significant and (if they find this game worth it) they want to "main" selected warframe (by buying syandana's, skins, colour palette's etc) OR they want to buy more weapon/warframe slots and propably affinity boosters.

      Endgame players keep this game running (I've bought myself founders pack and I keep buying platinum from time to time) and treating them as less important than new players is the most strange thing I ever experienced in any game I've played. If Forst would be my main warframe I would definitely feel cheated by DE now. Havens protect my Excalibur Prime against applaying such a "balance"...

      Ps: Respect is something difficult to earn and easy to loose. By killing endgame Frost DE lost my respect. There are only 2 options:

      1. They killed endgame Frost by accident. DE wanted to nerf SG so much, that they overlook making Snow Globe totally useless. After that they decided to give frost something in exchange, so they gave him better CC - completly forgetting that almost every warfame in the game already have CC, morevoer - some of them have still way better CC. From one-trick pony to no-trick pony. And this is fair exchange according to them? I suspect they never tried playing endgame Frost if they say so.

      2. DE killed engame Frost on purpose. Maybe DE, in their infite wisdom, decided that players reaching 40+ wave on defenses are bad thing, so they destroyed the only skill allowing this. Of course this is "their" game and they can do whatever they want, so sad they forgot one thing - bored endgame players will stop playing and stop paying. If DE team is bored of Warframe then they propably should give it to other people instead of causing the game to die in agony. Astounding shoot in the foot, really astounding.

      No matter what really happened - point 1 or maybe point 2 - in both cases DE acts just like brainless zombie, so much of their proffesionalism.

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    • From your first post.

      Darkos333 wrote: "because only there endgame players may find some challenge."

      I'm thinking that's pretty close to what they were thinking.

      The same happened to Vauban already, it was only a matter of time before it happened to Frost.

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    • Sorry, I am not sure what your statement is. If DE were aware of this, then nerfing Snow Globe to the point of absurd is definitely the very last idea they should got.

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    • I mostly agree with you (I don't think that SG was OP) but it's a shame that your manners were as good as this nerf. You could have tried to state your point without all those ridiculous "if you disagree with me you are an idiot" remarks.  

      Being so unrespectful makes me think that you are a spoiled kid, which is a shame. 

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    • I also want to point out at your arguments for end-game and challenge.

      I think having a Pre-nerf Frost+Rhino+Nova+Trinity/Rhino team actually makes wave 40+ just as challenging as a wave 15-20 team with "normal/useless" frames. There's a difference between using frames that are overblown OP and frames that are more-or-less balanced.

      If you want challenge, start using a normal frame for a change.

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    • Ok after watching the DEV stream 22, I got the feeling that "Scott" didnt put much thought into what he did when he decided to nerf the SG. When questioned his response or comment about getting out his "Nerf bat" and just hitting anything that needs it seemed a bit of a careless statement (and act).  And I have ran with a few Frost players... and there seems to be a lot less now...they really have become SG baby sitters.  Some have to put up so many SG's that I could barely see out of it.

      Scott also said he was bothered by the comment a player made who said he would do SG then take a break, do SG and then eat a sandwich, do SG and take another break, and so forth... Its just that so much detail was lacking in that statement... What mission and level was it? What level was this person's Warframe?  Where are the facts?  Anything can come across as being OP when played on the easiest tile settings. Shame on any endgame type player who complains how easy or OP something is when they dont take it to the extreme missions. And then if this OP condition still exists there, then I would look at my enemy scales and enemy compliment at that particular mission tile first before making any across the board nerf-ing action as he so off-handedly did.  I am very disappointed over this incident (Nerf bat indeed).

      Btw - (off topic, A challenge for endgamers) I have a dream or wish that DE would make a re-occuring dojo raid (alert) that happens or pops up every 4 hours or longer where a call goes out to all eligible Tennos for help. In a deep region of space, a generic, made up tenno dojo is getting destroyed or ripped off for its Orokin technology and only level 30 warframes are allowed to participate in it.  This is due to fact that there is a high degree of certain death. This would be an exclusive 'best of the best' where you must have certain tenno roles to be successful... like a healer, a damage dealer, a stealth, ect. in your group. Maybe the group could be made up of more than 4 tennos to ensure all roles are covered.

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    • Darkos333 wrote: PS: I can agree to the statemant that Snow Globe was OP and balancig was necessary. The only porblem with this - making a skill useless is hell not a balancing. There are tons of other ways DE could make SG weaker. Like for example: Give SG 5 seconds of invulnerability (extendable by mods) and after that time apply its HP. - This makes SG weaker, propably disallowing infite loops, still keeps it partially enemy-power-depended, BUT also makes it usefull even against high lvl enemies. I got this idea in one minute, seriously DE acts sometimes like brainless zombie.

      PS2: I am not whining about nerf - Frost is not even my main warframe. This is just an analysis of what happened to Frost. So if you dont want to make yourself an idiot, try to proof me wrong instead of writing your shitty "stop crying".

      PS3: Its not like I dont trust random, anonymous guys from the internet, but if you not intend to make me laugh hard - bring video with your gameplay along with your comment like "I just done 99999999 wave on T3 Def Solo with my Frost, no problem".

      Can I get a PS4?????

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    • We went up to wave 70 in T3Def with the help of a Frost, it's all up to how does one synergize and master their warframes.

      For instance, my friend's Snow Globe has a HP of 8,000 while simultaneously having 50% energy efficiency. The small size of the globe actually hinders the globe from stray fire and it was fortified further when he uses multiple instances of the globes.

      And when we are swarmed with firepowers? CC is the answer, our Mag/Rhino will always be there to Pull and or Rhino Stomp them, hindering the Snow Globe from being damaged in the first place.

      Frost is still as viable as ever, it's all up to how well you master his usage. :)

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    • Nerfing is major bullsh**! They take things you know and love and dumb them down so you dont like them as much. Its like buying those delicious frozen California Pizza's for so long and one day the crust turns into cheap saltine cracker crust. You dont just tie Labron's arms behind his back because hes too good; make better competition. I say crank up the enemy damage, increase the stomp radius of the corpus, and possibly give some enemies punch through to go through snowglobe. Frost is my favorite frame and that makes this pretty angering to me. I quad formad my Frost Prime and thats alot of time to put into something to see it go worse, not to mention the time I put into getting the prime version because I like him so much. Please DE, take this awful decision back.

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    • Snow Globe is used for trapping enemies like that really annoying Oxium Osprey that some people just don't get how to kill... but it is used in def and srv on low lvl enemies.

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    • NotJustaMoron wrote:


      Comparing Loki's effectiveness of Decoy to the effectiveness of the Snow Globe isn't the same...I consider the Snow Globe like an Ulty...Where as the decoy is the weakest ability of loki's..IMO.

      You did not just call decoy weak

      One decoy can remove an entire crowd's focus from you instantly, then leave them confused after they kill it. It is VERY useful

      Perhaps you play survival to the 15 minute mark and leave...


      I solo survival constantly to the 45 minute mark...There is absolutely no reason to even have Decoy as part of your arsenal...it's the weakEST of his abilities...I didn't say it's just weak....btw Loki is one of my favorite Frames....

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    • Well, you're right, it's useless now, it's proven, it's no news, but still, you also sound like a huge -snip- jerk the entire post.

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    • 24.244.143.14 wrote: Snow Globe is used for trapping enemies like that really annoying Oxium Osprey that some people just don't get how to kill... but it is used in def and srv on low lvl enemies.

      You sound like you've never even used snowglobe before. It doesnt trap enemies. Its point was to keep enemy fire out. The slow radius in the center is the least effective part of it. That old snowglobe could be used to defend against the strongest enemies in the game.

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    • Sadisto wrote: Well, you're right, it's useless now, it's proven, it's no news, but still, you also sound like a huge fucking jerk the entire post.

      You gotta air sometimes when you're wronged. I'd personally take that post and slap DE in the face with it. DE indian traded us. They get us to invest into their game and then take the value out of it. I did like DE before this, but now I just look forward to the day Destiny comes out so I never have to play their nerfed-ass game again. I hope every employee at DE gets fired and eats trash for the rest of their lives. There are people that spend hundreds of dollars on these frames and hundreds of hours ranking them, only to see you ruin them. Only a fool would invest in your game again when they know you do things like this.

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    • meh frost is dead , only high level players will know the difference

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    • Don't those DE jackasses know that they're paid to make the game better? The game has been going down hill ever since they nerfed Ember. What next, are they going to turn Iron Skin into Plastic Skin? Perhaps they might limit Trinity's powers to say, 10 seconds? They call themselves Digital "Extremes". Theres nothing extreme about them anymore. Digital Minimums is more like it.

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    • Bender 82 wrote:I hope every employee at DE gets fired and eats trash for the rest of their lives. 
      Bender 82 wrote:Don't those DE jackasses know that they're paid to make the game better? ... Digital Minimums is more like it.
      Bender 82 wrote: Please DE, take this awful decision back.

      > **** you DE

      > plz buff DE

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    • I don't get the negative feedback of Frost. Add some power strength for more health and then sit at the pod so you can immediately cast the globe again after it gets destroyed. Have a Nyx with max power range and 2 DPS frames with you and you can't lose. YOU AREN'T SUPPOSED TO SOLO THIS GAME.

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    • I feel like China after they gave the US tons of money to improve its economy and then they spend the money on war and ruin themselves with it. lol I donated to you DE to improve your game and you just squander it. You used my money to nerf down my favorite Tennos.

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    • we need Ninja Turtule Warframe .. that can use his Shell as new Snow Globe.. and yes DE just punch of Zombies need to be shooted.

      down.. in name of mercy

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    • tl;dr

      Use Streamline, Fleeting exp. and Narrow minded and other mods at the same time. 

      It still makes a DECENT self-preservation tool. If it breaks, recast it. If you are sure that it'll break really fast, cast two or more of them. 

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    • Narrow Minded and Streamline drop the important stats of the globe. I need the big globe that can comfortably fit the squad and the pod in at the same time without shattering like glass. I liked Frost just the way he was. The globe is the unique part about Frost and I replaced his two weaker abillities with enhancements for the globe. If anything I would say nerf his attacks and up the globe. Every time I turn Warframe on its like "I hope that update hasnt happened yet and my Tenno is still functional." You say "Its not as good, but you can do this, and that." This isnt the beta anymore and they need to stop messing with things that are perfectly fine. They need to use our investments to improve the game and not to downgrade it. Slightly altered vipers for the crisis, seriously? They should be making all new stuff for events but they squander their time lingering on past creations.

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    • DealerC wrote:
      My pc specs aren't good for making videos at the time as gaming so my best can be pics. I just need time. No worries. I may do eh same for Zephyr, too, because she's fun as ever.

      http://s1071.photobucket.com/user/DealerC/media/2014-02-22_00013.jpg.html

      http://s1071.photobucket.com/user/DealerC/media/2014-02-22_00014.jpg.html

      I haven't forgotten my words... I've broken my personal best solo'n, so I hope my next runs will be w/ my clannies to see how far duo'n/trio'nwill take me. Testing my limits w/ public runs wasnt my best choice recently :P... them prime prizes for trades got in the way.

      Speaking of limits, what is each person's limits using Frost/Prime in survivals, and with how many players in a group, and what weapons used by your Frost/Prime?

      Edit: I should put my frame's build up as well so i can maybe get some feedback... http://goo.gl/8Y3YnU

      Edit2: I might forma a skill slot to a V polarity in time perhaps

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    • Warframe is already a really easy game, nerfing snow globe was the right thing to do. It's now an ability, instead of a mandatory god bubble every team must run with. Frost seems bad and useless now because he doesn't just completely warp the mechanics of a defense mission with one button like he used to. Frost players will have to become accustomed to moving around the map and pressing different buttons for the first time. He's still a good frame, but defense missions no longer plummet in difficulty the moment frost steps foot in them.

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    • I think that it WAS overpowered back then, and now it's underpowered.  I agree with the person that said that Snowglobe should get a set time limit of invulnerability, increasable by mods.  I am a dedicated Frost player, he was my first Prime frame and I still use him a lot to this day.  But back when Frost's Snowglobe had infinite health, it was overpowered.  You were trading x energy to block an infinite number of bullets for seconds.  It was quite possibly game-breaking, allowing any team of Tenno to go very far in defense and survival missions (as long as there is a Frost of course).  I'm more of a casual player, and I don't do much endgame.  Obviously Snowglobe is very underpowered now, and I agree with you on that.  But it was also overpowered back then.

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    • I made Frost Prime hoping that Snow Globe was better than it ended up being. Sure, at first 3500 damage sounds cool, but soon enough it's worthless. Rather than focusing on the Snow Globe, I have instead set my Frost Prime's abilities to have higher damage and 75% Efficiency, since it's far more effective to slaughter things with Avalanche than it is to do just about anything else thus far. Should the need arise, I'll change it, but so far, it's worked pretty well. 

      That being said.... 

      I am of the opinion that a number of shots, not an amount of damage, is the most appropriate middle ground. This means that it is equal at all levels and its efficacy is only changed by the number of things shooting at it. (I.E, like any good wall, you need to protect it as much as it protects you). The precise numbers would need a bit of testing, but I believe that it would give the happy medium between the vastly overpowered that it was and the "why bother" that it currently is. 

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    • I disagree. Frost, or atleast if there's any difference, Frost Prime's Snowglobe has served me well in t3 defense missions all the way til wave 20 where the damage output of enemies becomes high enough to warrant a double layered snow globe protecting the cryo pod. and there's no risk of losing too much energy unless you're disrupted, the enemies drop plenty of energy to keep going. 

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    • I feel like the snow globe should be buffed in 2 ways:

      1. Buff either the base health at higher ranks or increase the scaling with power strength

      2. Give the snow globe a high amount or armor that would fade over the duration of the ability, the armor scaling with ranks but probably not power strength, maybe have it go from 1000 to 200, this way it would last longer at high level defenses without being completely invulnerable. They could possibly put the base lower and have it scale with power strength too. 

      What do you guys think of the armor buff?

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    • Really, towards the end of T3 defs I depend more on Avalanch than Snowglobe. I have the maxed size globe to fit the team in and the fusion moa jump right in there. With max energy syphon, power efficiency, stretch and overtended on you can consistantly keep every enemy in the room frozen with Avalanch. I get more use out of the globe in the beginning waves when its all lower level grineer. With the proper strategy this change could make Frost better.

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    • Rejoice, Avalanche is the new snow globe. Use maximize range build and fleeting expertise and you'll get your very own north pole. No one will move for a long time. And spammable. Haven't tried it, have you? Don't think you're the only one smart on earth. And some of those random guys on internet may be godly at this game, you'll never know.

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    • Nice Evilkitten... no of shots/hits buffable with mods - nice.

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    • I got half way through this thread and, If your really want to make Frost come back from the "dead", and I agree this one-trick pony just lost his talent, you should start a thread on the warframe forums. I feel like frost is the warframe that is 100%cc, no ice wave etc! a globe, a stun, a freeze, and possibly a slow or a disorientation etc. this is just me. You should make this a serious DE topic, they will notice and fix it one day

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    • LeftwardSP wrote:
      I got half way through this thread and, If your really want to make Frost come back from the "dead", and I agree this one-trick pony just lost his talent, you should start a thread on the warframe forums. I feel like frost is the warframe that is 100%cc, no ice wave etc! a globe, a stun, a freeze, and possibly a slow or a disorientation etc. this is just me. You should make this a serious DE topic, they will notice and fix it one day


      DE already said they have enough feedback and locked their own Frost thread, which I think means that they're already working on something :/

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    • Easiest way to nerf it: block all shots coming from inside the globe as well. That would have worked just fine.

      Now a globe with 5000 hp lasts about 8 seconds (if it doesn't go down in less than 15 seconds you didn't even need it in the first place).

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    • 179.24.23.21 wrote: Easiest way to nerf it: block all shots coming from inside the globe as well. That would have worked just fine.

      Now a globe with 5000 hp lasts about 8 seconds (if it doesn't go down in less than 15 seconds you didn't even need it in the first place).

      Anything but that. Frost already suffers loss of kills from being stationary to consistantly support the globe. Nobody would stand in the globe with Frost and the squad would jack the kills before the enemies ever got in range of him.

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    • Bender 82 wrote:

      179.24.23.21 wrote: Easiest way to nerf it: block all shots coming from inside the globe as well. That would have worked just fine.

      Now a globe with 5000 hp lasts about 8 seconds (if it doesn't go down in less than 15 seconds you didn't even need it in the first place).

      Anything but that. Frost already suffers loss of kills from being stationary to consistantly support the globe. Nobody would stand in the globe with Frost and the squad would jack the kills before the enemies ever got in range of him.

      It wouldn't change a thing actually (compared to how it was before). All you'd have to do is pop out of the globe to take a few shots and then run back inside.

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    • 179.24.24.255 wrote:

      Bender 82 wrote:

      179.24.23.21 wrote: Easiest way to nerf it: block all shots coming from inside the globe as well. That would have worked just fine.

      Now a globe with 5000 hp lasts about 8 seconds (if it doesn't go down in less than 15 seconds you didn't even need it in the first place).

      Anything but that. Frost already suffers loss of kills from being stationary to consistantly support the globe. Nobody would stand in the globe with Frost and the squad would jack the kills before the enemies ever got in range of him.

      It wouldn't change a thing actually (compared to how it was before). All you'd have to do is pop out of the globe to take a few shots and then run back inside.

      But one of the best features of the globe is the slow radius. The globe was made to shield you from ranged as well as melee attacks. This would clearly lower the incentive for your squad to gather in the globe. Frost already has sufficient shields to support himself, but the globe makes room in the squad for 3 offensive tennos that would not last long without it. Besides, "running in and out of the globe every 2 seconds to take a shot?" That doesnt sound annoying at all. lol Frost is also quite slow and he works best if you just stay stationary and feel at home in the globe.

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    • I think it would have been cool to have a melting globe.  It would be a visual reference for how well the globe is protecting them.  Hence, it would melt from the top down... at first there would be a hole in the top of the globe and everyone could see it moving downward... at first the protect gives out for standing Tennos... then crouching Tennos... then the pod... finally the last thing to leave would be the slow down area of the freeze proc... much better then simply nerfing it with a very limited health.

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    • ^ I like this idea, invulnerable globe for 30(or whatever) seconds but shrinking constantly.

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    • TBH I thought snowglobe was fine the way it was. Frost has the shortcomings to deserve an invinco-bubble. He may have more durability than yer average frame, but that's about it. He doesnt have invincibility like Rhino, or invisibility like Loki or Ash and Saryn can be pretty tanky as well. He's by far the slowest frame because most Rhinos use the Vanguard helmet, and with the stamina nerf it makes it even harder for him to keep up with the group. Even though they buffed Ice Wave and Avalanche, but frost damage is still shit compared to just about every other damage type. By the way, I don't know if anyone noticed but snowglobe does absolute shit in terms of protecting you when the enemies get inside the globe, so this negates the usefulness of making the globe huge, and if you go for full duration, the globe turns out tiny and not nearly as effective as protecting teamates or pods or whatever. With the addition of limited health, it may be just as useful against a small group of enemies, but it won't last more than a few seconds of 50-100 high level enemies bombarding it with damage. If they do want to add health to it, it needs to be atleast 10 times the current health or it won't last for shit against a massive horde, or even a relatively large group, of high level enemies. As it stands they might as well reduce the duration of Snowglobe to 10 seconds, because it can't last longer than that against anything worth while. My main point is either put it back the way it was (an unthinkable prospect to DE) or give it a shitload more health. Frost just isen't viable for later game content without it, he might as well not have any abilities and completely rely on his shields and guns.

      P.S. Does anyone else see the comments for this blog as oldest to newest? For any of the other ones I see it as newest to oldest. Is there something I can do to change this or is it a website thing?

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    • Snow Globe

      helpfull for revive teammate at late game

      Avalance

      Still have aoe damage at late game and freze time make you can help your teammate

      well for me frost still usefull :) let see what frame can buy time for revive team at wave >40 only rhino?

      and sorry for bad english

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    • I heard about all this before the update came to Ps4 and I thought I could work with this nerf. Frost is now junk I invested so much time into upgrading him with Forma, cores, etc. The globe doesnt even last 2 seconds. Avalanch is powerful now, but Frost was best known for his defense abillities before this and now hes just another offensive tenno with generic powers that lose their luster in minutes. I dont use him anymore and he was my favorite. RIP Frost

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    • 180.253.254.133 wrote:
      Snow Globe

      helpfull for revive teammate at late game

      Avalance

      Still have aoe damage at late game and freze time make you can help your teammate

      well for me frost still usefull :) let see what frame can buy time for revive team at wave >40 only rhino?

      and sorry for bad english

      Trinity's Link and Blessing, Loki's Invisibilty, Ash's Smokescreen, Excalibur's Radial Blind, Nekros' Terrify, Nyx's Chaos, Valkyr's Hysteria, Volt's Overload, Vauban's Vortex and Bastille, Mag's Pull and Crush, and Zephyr's Turbulence and ( partially ) Tornado.

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    • Seeing how everybody complains about the snowglobe nerf is kinda funny.

      All thos guys are reducing Frost to a single ability, which, in my opinion, proves the point that this ability was far above the average.

      So, a nerf is more than justified.

      Of course some balancing has to be done, but it's a step in the right direction.

      It was the same with Vaubans Bastille, players reduces Vauban to this one single skill and the craziest part is, this one ability was enough to break infested defense mode.

      There was literally no reason to have another frame than vauban.

      and it was the same with frost, anybody who'd join a defnese with another frame than frost was basically dead weight.

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    • Most people want the most kills and many tenno specialize in offensive abillities. Frost was the perfect example of taking one for the team and purely focusing on defense. It makes it feel much like a sport when you have diverse roles. Kobe Bryant needs people to pick and pass for him. If you have all people trying to score points its just too unorganized and theres no significance to your role. You might as well just let them die so you can get more kills for yourself. If they nerfed Trinity we would just be left with a bland pile of tenno that just look different when they kill.

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    • Sticking with the metaphor of warframe as a sport, Frost was basically goalkeeping in soccer, by building a brickwall in front of it.

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    • Yeah, and now hes a bench warmer. lol What kind of reason is there to use Frost now. You might as well use Ember. Shes faster, her ulitmate kills them quicker, overheat combined with good weapons is extremely powerful, and her fire blast lasts longer than 2 seconds. Her prime version is also cooler looking. The globe was the only incentive to ever use him and now its a joke.

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    • This way he's at least not breaking any rules.

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    • Getting popcorn, and waitong for Chaos nerf.

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    • @ Bender 82. You remind me a Halo fan Ive stumbled upon the forums way back. He straight out loved the game but when a change that didnt come his way he went furious with rage and spouted hate all over the place. I told him to chill out keep playing Halo 3 instead of Reach. He was still mad but he explained thoroughly why he hated it and that he was a passionate fan. Indeed passionate as hell cus i agreed with him on all points. Pretty much the same deal here with you.

      I find Frost not nearly as usefull as he once was, hell they couldve even removed his other abilities instead as a nerf lol. I still tho found the globe to be abit OP. In most defensive missions I played as frost. I ended up "sleeping" inside the bubble since the Corpus werent planning on coming closer. Sniping and skillshoting like crazy without doing a dent. Thats probably the part I found boring with his bubble. TBH Id rather see a Wall of of it instead of a bubble. Bubble blocked incoming shots from all directions. Having a  wall would limit its effective use to a singular spot instead of all angles. In anycase I find this nerf ridicolous. Its currently the worst move by DE to date. I think they should change Trinitys ult instead, flat out god mode isnt balanced in my opinion. It removes the risk of any mission.

      Bah, in anycase I find your frustration reasonable and your concerns just, Im with you all the way ;)

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    • I used to be a serious Halo fan. xD I didnt check forums and such but I never found a noticable change in anything on it. DE makes drastic alterations that are immediatly noticable. In halo your character is only cosmetic and not its own individual thing that was seperatly ranked that just goes bad one day. People also spend alot of money on a tenno, often because of cirtain attributes it has. If you were a Prime Access Frost owner, which I am not, thats a $150 waste. Not a decision that DE should make so easily. Its more or less indian trading except instead of taking it back they just pour gas on what they traded you.

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    • I agree with it having health - you're not even really intended to do content past level, say, 50? Once you get far enough the rules break down such that you can still kill mobs that will kill a blind rage iron skinned rhino in one tiny breath of any damage, why complain about the high end balance when at that level there really isn't one to begin with? 

      My issue is that now that it has health everything in the damn world should stop going through it. Explosions, moa rails, ground pounds etc should now just hit the globe's health instead of behaving as if it weren't there. I farmed Raptor on Frost Prime for a friend last night and not only did it constantly attempt to fly into the globe on purpose, it could do TONS of damage though it without popping it. I eventually just got back on Rhino. :/

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    • 194.42.186.207 wrote:
      Sticking with the metaphor of warframe as a sport, Frost was basically goalkeeping in soccer, by building a brickwall in front of it.

      That made me laugh for some reason xD

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    • 76.20.31.167 wrote: I agree with it having health - you're not even really intended to do content past level, say, 50? Once you get far enough the rules break down such that you can still kill mobs that will kill a blind rage iron skinned rhino in one tiny breath of any damage, why complain about the high end balance when at that level there really isn't one to begin with? 

      My issue is that now that it has health everything in the damn world should stop going through it. Explosions, moa rails, ground pounds etc should now just hit the globe's health instead of behaving as if it weren't there. I farmed Raptor on Frost Prime for a friend last night and not only did it constantly attempt to fly into the globe on purpose, it could do TONS of damage though it without popping it. I eventually just got back on Rhino. :/

      With all the rationalizing you put to Frost's nerfing, in the end you went back to another tenno, same as me. The health of Rhinos Iron Skin should not be anywhere comparable to the health of the globe. With cirtain mods the globe is easily 70 times bigger than he is and has a much higher chance of making contact with stray projectiles. Now it forces you to make the smallest globe possible to avoid damage, thus cutting out its abillity for squad protection. Which is really the only reason I liked the globe in the first place. They should have left void defense as it was and not make it endless, forcing them to nerf what the game revolves around.

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    • Original poster, good job.

      Everyone who commented by saying "well, I think endgame is when I'm having fun" or "If you want a challenge, use a weak frame and only play with the skana"... I'm not sure you can even take yourselves seriously.

      We all know what endgame means, trying to win an argument by changing the definition of the words is as sophomoric as it is weak.

      Warframe has powerful frames, weapons, and some very hard levels. It is absurdly illogical to think that the original poster (or anyone who has enjoyed these things) could somehow be satisfied by ignoring these parts of the game, and only playing the certain parts of warframe in a certain way, with the sole goal being to make it hard.... if this is your solution, try playing with your monitor off and no mouse... it's really really hard.


      For everyone who agreed or disagreed, but responded with logic and realistic ideas, thank you for your ideas, I enjoyed reading them.

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    • 98.231.224.253 wrote: Original poster, good job.

      Everyone who commented by saying "well, I think endgame is when I'm having fun" or "If you want a challenge, use a weak frame and only play with the skana"... I'm not sure you can even take yourselves seriously.

      We all know what endgame means, trying to win an argument by changing the definition of the words is as sophomoric as it is weak.

      Warframe has powerful frames, weapons, and some very hard levels. It is absurdly illogical to think that the original poster (or anyone who has enjoyed these things) could somehow be satisfied by ignoring these parts of the game, and only playing the certain parts of warframe in a certain way, with the sole goal being to make it hard.... if this is your solution, try playing with your monitor off and no mouse... it's really really hard.


      For everyone who agreed or disagreed, but responded with logic and realistic ideas, thank you for your ideas, I enjoyed reading them.

      You remind me of the white haired guy from the Matrix. Where I'm not sure if everything you say is irrelevant or you just word things in a way no human can comprehend.

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    • Combustionsquirrel said:

      "put it back the way it was (an unthinkable prospect to DE) or give it a shitload more health." 
      


      I agree with all you said but particularly this part. This truly is a thought that would never cross DE's mind. I see a thousand times more comments from people mad about nerf than op, but DE doesnt want to hurt the feelings of the handful of bitching players (that most likely dont even use the item) by taking the bad decision back.

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      • not bashing or even trying to be disrespectful*

      You should do some spellcheck there, buddy... I liked this and agree with you, but your spelling mistakes made me question legitimacy even when I knew you were pretty much spot on.


      Again, not bashing. You did good, m80. ._.

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    • 96.249.152.102 wrote:

      • not bashing or even trying to be disrespectful*

      You should do some spellcheck there, buddy... I liked this and agree with you, but your spelling mistakes made me question legitimacy even when I knew you were pretty much spot on.


      Again, not bashing. You did good, m80. ._.

      Off topic a little bit here. Considder this part of the Tenno Manners page. When all you pluck is the slight errors in spelling out of somebodies writing it will never go without making you look like a total douchebag. Also, lazy faced emoticons will only make you look cool if you're posting on a Paramore forum.

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    • I believe the snow globe was OP and did need a nerf. The fact that you NEEDED a frost with a globe (I prefered smaller globes so they hard more difficulty getting into it) for the super high waves was a sign of it. It could block ALL bullets from ANY level enemy (excluding explosion based and railgun moas) proved that it was too OP. DE was just trying to mix up defense missions so that a frost was not needed for every single one. They want all frames to be able to be used equally without having "god tier" frames to take the slot of potentially other useful frames. If you did get to the level 70+ waves on defense a globe was a necessity. Ogris/Pentas can kill the enemies with moderate ease the only problem is protecting the pod.

      That said, I think the nerf was too much. Perhaps it should start off with 100% blocking capabilities than slowly lose its effectivness % by % until its duration is finished. It would still have the blocking capabilities but it would not be an unbreakable wall of trolololol while the team just sets up camp inside and plays cards or eats a sammich.

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    • It is a fact that these so called god powers come with usually two powers that could easily be disposed of to add buffs. Then theres one power that sucks, but you keep it on out of pity. Another sport analogy here. Frost was like Shaqu. He's slow, not really a good shooter, and clumbsy, but he had one attribute that always kept him in the sport. He's a big ol brute and nobody can shoot over him. lol Trinity is like Dennis Rodman. He was the best at keeping the ball in his teams hands, but he does'nt stand out at anything els. Not every player needs to be evenly balanced like Lebron James and the fact that they are not makes the sport more interesting.

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    • Before update , Frost is the only frame needed in what ever level defense or survival mission u would run . Its like ur playing DUCK HUNT in the globe . COuple that with a very strong long range weapon , it really take the fun/challenge out of the game . Other CC skills have very limited time n range , even trinity blessing have a few second delay before recast , and if ur poisoned/wounded when the duration is out u could instanly die from a lvl100 poison , Nyx chaos will stay but if any of u shoot the enemy it will draw the fire back at u .

      Meh , the game will turn out however DE wants them , keep on playing n complaining . the game is still in beta state anyway .

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    • This post is well thought out. However, it won't make a difference anyway because DE only reads posts on warframe forums

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    • Bewak86 wrote: Before update , Frost is the only frame needed in what ever level defense or survival mission u would run . Its like ur playing DUCK HUNT in the globe . COuple that with a very strong long range weapon , it really take the fun/challenge out of the game . Other CC skills have very limited time n range , even trinity blessing have a few second delay before recast , and if ur poisoned/wounded when the duration is out u could instanly die from a lvl100 poison , Nyx chaos will stay but if any of u shoot the enemy it will draw the fire back at u .

      Meh , the game will turn out however DE wants them , keep on playing n complaining . the game is still in beta state anyway .

      I agree that Frost was OP, but now hes UP (under powered). They always do that when it comes to nerfing. This may be a beta, but its way more expensive than most regular games. People invest alot time/money into the Frames and not the levels or enemies. They should not mess with the main product and should make the challenge harder. Possibly make the infested EMP disrupt the globe and enemies that can pierce it or are invulnerable to the slow radius. They choose to crackdown on Frames themselves because its the shortcut.

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    • I did agree with you but looking at the page for Snow Globe the system is actually quite fair. the snow globe is invulnerable for 1/2/3/4 seconds then whatever damage the snowglobe takes in these seconds is hp+ 1500/2500/3000/3500 hp therefore higher level enemies = give the snowglobe more health. The real problem here is you need plenty of enemies around at the time and you need for them to aggro at the snowglobe, which is not usually the common case at the time.

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    • I agree. The globe was best used to protect the squad and now if it has any range mods on it will shatter in 5 seconds. Since in fact most of the enemy fire is directed at the squad then Trinity would actually be better to defend pods and basicly everything else. You can stand still and absorb aggro while not running around like a rabid turkey to avoid bullets. Blessing also lasts 6x longer than the globe. Frost is useless, admit it. We all have a bit of buyer's remorse about him.

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    • You know, I keep seeing people crying foul whenever something is nerfed, instead of adapting and moving on.

      I personally pick frames that I like the look and theme of, not because they're strong or effective. For example, the first frame that I built aside from the starting Excalibur was Saryn, who isn't exactly the god of endgame.

      What many people have said here is true. Before the nerf to Snow-globe that I saw, Frost was pretty much mandatory. It's rather annoying seeing recruiting messages asking for a specific frame because such frames make the content so much easier. (I'm currently looking at you, Trinity)

      The Snow Globe is currently still quite fair, as pointed out in a post a bit above mine on here. It ramps up health as it gets shot at, in the first couple of seconds, then needs to get taken down again. So if you have a ton of fire coming your way and pop the globe, it should last a full 8 seconds (Which is plenty of bullet-blocking, when things get rough).

      And lastly, to the people screaming "I spent time and money on this game and you -RUINED IT- with this nerf, I hope all you DE employees burn in hell, bla bla bla". Lol. DE employees spend all their worktime on trying to improve and balance this game slowly, it's not going to happen overnight. As they say, Rome wasn't built in one day. They're testing, adapting, they don't exactly have a Public Test server to test things out in live play beforehand. So stop cursing the people trying to do their job and make the game enjoyable for EVERYONE, and relax.

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    • Crimea river.

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    • Yawn, you smashed any credit you had right off the bat when you stated you only chose frames by their looks. I once thought as you did, on day one...

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    • And you just killed your own seeing as you're pretty much stating that only one set of opinions is valid. Warframe is a free game for EVERYONE. If I want to have a good, fair challenge, I go play Dark Souls. DE are actively working on this game, they are the one's who get income from this game, and I'm sure that if everyone just left and quit just because Frost's Snowglobe got nerfed, they'd likely revert it.

      But they haven't. Meaning that, they clearly see some bigger picture that perhaps you are not seeing, perhaps the same number of platinum purchases across the board, perhaps even more.

      Point is, Frost's Snowglobe WAS overpowered. Was the nerf too much? Perhaps. Does it justify cursing and tossing out wishes of ill will towards the employees? Not in the slightest.

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    • people call it a soap globe? soap dosn't absorb all incoming damage for 4 seconds then add it to the base health ;) like all powers it gets less effective at higher levels, but at least snow globe scales to these higher levels somewhat. It can now be used to cover downed teamates. It should never go out during this period because of the recent buff. 

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    • I thought soap was used in washing hands.... wait so i could wash my hands with this thing? Must seem a bit cold though :)

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    • Darthmufin wrote:
      people call it a soap globe? soap dosn't absorb all incoming damage for 4 seconds then add it to the base health ;) like all powers it gets less effective at higher levels, but at least snow globe scales to these higher levels somewhat. It can now be used to cover downed teamates. It should never go out during this period because of the recent buff. 

      More like a Sponge Globe. But seriously, this thread should have died a while ago. Frost got buffed and this is still an ongoing discussion.

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    • True, Usoulz. However, if this widespread rant were to enlighten DE in some way then perhaps next time they will think twice before using the Oblivious Hammer of Nerfing they so wrecklessly wield. Warframe is simply too awesome to leave all the decisions to a handfull of people. As the beta testers it would be best if things like this were put to a vote amongst the community. I truly believe if that was the case then Frost would have never been voted to be nerfed. No Frost user would ever vote for this and only people that dont use him would vote to make him worse than their own favorite Tenno. We all know there are some really impractical Tennos and if they cut them all down to be just like them the game would suck.

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    • 54.197.211.197
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